Long overdue comics post
Jul. 24th, 2007 09:57 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mondoshawan555Time to catch up, been too long. Topics include Birds of Prey, the last part of Homosexuality in Comics, Painkiller Jane, Justice League: The New Frontier and Y: The Last Man.
Homosexuality in Comics Part 4
Interesting last part, here are some bits from it:
Grayson actually liked the infamous New York Times write-up that stirred up the Batwoman controversy in the first place, but again, the fact that the piece made such a big deal of the character's sexuality before the hero even graced the page of a comic book went a long way towards nullifying any positive effect Batwoman might have had on the industry. Consequently, the character was relegated to the backseat of the “52” event rather than the forefront of her own title.
In fact, Grayson was eight months into the development of the proposed “Batwoman” title when she found out from a newspaper article that the project was dead, and to this day, the writer has not received so much as a phone call from upper editorial on the matter. “That reversal really surprised and disappointed me,” Grayson admitted. “I won't pretend not to be resentful of how badly DC treated me in that exchange, but the majority of my concern and sympathy goes out to the character, who was basically thrown away by a company which had a lot of support to make her successful and unique. My experiences up to that point had been much more positive, although admittedly less ambitious, and it was really sad and discouraging to see the ball so badly dropped.”
I knew it! They screwed it up royally like so many other things! F*CK!
There were a few scenes that appeared in the original “52” breakdowns which none-too-subtly intimated that Montoya was engaged in sexual congress with another woman, but Rucka insists the reason those scenes never made it to the published issues had less to do with the homosexual content and more to do with sexual content in general. “That's the litmus for me, is it because we're puritanical prudes, or is it because we don't like the fact that they're gay?” Rucka posed. “And more often than not it's that we're puritanically prudish. It's easier in this country to show somebody literally getting their head shot off than showing two people having sex. And that is kind of fucked up.”
Amen.
Lobdell believes that more often than not, it was the fans, not the editors, who reacted most strongly to GLBT issues in his work. “One time I had Storm and Yukio about to kiss in a panel in ‘Uncanny X-Men,'” Lobdell explained. “ Editorially, no one blinked. But the fans? They went ape. I always thought of [Storm] as the most open-minded, tolerant and cautious of all of Marvel's characters, while apparently some people saw her differently.”
lol
“Some of these fictional characters project things on their own. I mean, we all know Peppermint Patty, Marcy, Velma, Snagglepuss, Jabberjaws, Vanity Smurf and Brainy. Well, they're all gay, right?” Andreyko laughed.
Naturally.
Mark Millar is of two minds on the issue. “Sometimes it's a crass headline-grabbing tactic and desperate looking,” Millar said. “But even then, some old uncle who'd been married with kids suddenly coming out of the closet happens in real life and shocks the family. Similarly, I suppose, this could happen in the Marvel or DC Universes. But it can be a little silly when you're getting down to Tin from the ‘Metal Men' or something.”
I understand that people are pissed when characters get "retconned" but it's not like it's impossible that someone who's only been in heterosexual relationships realizes they might not be straight after all. So I think it's pretty stupid to base someone's sexuality solely on the fact that they've dated someone of the opposite sex or gender or whatever word you want to use.
“There have been consistently terrific portrayals of homosexual and bisexual relationships in independent comics for decades, but in mainstream super heroics, it's still pretty rare,” Devin Grayson stated. “There are a few good examples, though, and a lot of bad ones, but I'm going to refrain from naming them because the tally quickly points to specific writers, and I don't want to be negative about any fellow writers who are at least trying to be more inclusive.” “T he single most positive portrayal of a gay super-hero is ‘Top 10's' Jack Phantom,” Terrance Griep declared. “She's likable, competent, and I loved in the first issue of the first series that she took Toybox out for coffee to see if Toybox's sexual hinges might swing her way. And when she found out they didn't, they became friends. Finally, a GLBT character who just happened to be lesbian, but was allowed to express her sexuality in a non-exploitative way. It was perfect.”
Why didn't I know that?! Where the hell did I put my Top Ten comics...?
Moore singled out one aspect of Frank Miller's popular “300” as a particularly egregious example of poor research as it relates to GLBT issues. “There was just one particular line in it where one of the Spartan soldiers -- I'll remind you, this is Spartans that we're talking about -- one of them was talking disparagingly about the Athenians, and said, ‘Those boy-lovers.' You know, I mean, read a book, Frank. The Spartans were famous for something other than holding the bridge at Thermopylae, they were quite famous for actually enforcing man-boy love amongst the ranks as a way of military bonding.”
Heh, this is here just because I hate Frank Miller.
“I know that a lot of the people in positions of power in this industry today (not all of them, but a lot) are very open-minded and dedicated to the idea of fair representation -- sexually, racially, gender-wise, across the board,” Grayson continued. “But that doesn't mean that they necessarily know how to make those changes, or have the guts to do so."
Yes, unfortunately that is the case. Change happens so damn slow. People just simply suck at it.
Painkiller Jane
The latest issue of Painkiller Jane was good. I'm glad Ajira didn't turn out to be a bad guy. And after what was shown about her past and how she got there I doubt she'll end up dead. Unless Palmiotti and Quesada wanted to be assholes (which is always possible). But I have hope. And talking about PKJ I read on Newsarama that they'll be doing a Painkiller Jane/Terminator crossover. Now before that would've sounded a bit stupid but then I started having images of Lena Headey and Kristanna Loken in a same place kicking ass... No, I still haven't forgiven KL but dreams are still allowed, right?
Justice League: The New Frontier
Finally a release month for Justice League: The New Frontier movie! The DVD will be out in February. Woohoo! A long time dream come true when Lucy Lawless will be Wonder Woman. Okay, I know she'll just be the voice but if I can't get the real thing then I'll take this. I just can't believe they actually considered leaving Wonder Woman out of it completely. Someone was seriously lacking brain function...
Y: The Last Man
Then there's the news that a team has been selected for Y: The Last Man movie. Excellent, now there's a real chance it'll make it to the big screen. Of course there's always the possibility that they'll screw the whole thing up... But I prefer being optimistic and I'll just hang them later if they do make a mess of it.
Birds of Prey #108
Last but not least there's Birds of Prey #108, the last issue by Gail Simone.
-First of all, this cover would be good if the dude hadn't forgotten that Barbara is paralysed. I don't know much about paralysis but I imagine that they can't really keep their leg in that kind of position.
-Ha, Scandal has regrowing organs. Should've known...
-Huntress left Catman a note! How cute is that!
-Aww, Harley, don't quit!
-"Swan Song", how appropiate.
-Ok, Zinda got a ride home, that's good. Hate to think she had to walk...
-"And arranged safe passage for Ice to be taken into the care of her friend at Checkmate." Please tell me we get to see that? Please? Have we seen that? Did I miss it? Damn, does this mean I have to start reading Countdown again?
-Maiden Tower? Ok...
-A duel? Ok.....
-"Spy Smasher? Meet Batgirl." Wow... *drool*
-Isn't it fun how there's no blood even though they pound each other? It's not like they're metahuman or something...
-"Don't you dare pass out on me yet." You go Babs, just let it all out!
-Wow, what's Catwoman doing there? What are the Outsiders doing there? Is that Rose? What's Karen doing there???? And Shiva???? But lookie, Zinda's back!!!
-Ahh, now I get it... Dinah. Hello Dinah, it's good to see you.
-Heh, Dinah's being a badass.
-lol, no one knows who invited Shiva...
-Awww, isn't that great, all of them together again... *sigh*
-"Somebody hug me before I turn all weepy and embarrasing." I'll hug you Babs, anytime. *hugs*
Well, that's it, the end of an era. I'll still keep reading, no doubt about that. I love the characters. I can only hope Sean McKeever does a good job with them. But I'll miss Gail.
Homosexuality in Comics Part 4
Interesting last part, here are some bits from it:
Grayson actually liked the infamous New York Times write-up that stirred up the Batwoman controversy in the first place, but again, the fact that the piece made such a big deal of the character's sexuality before the hero even graced the page of a comic book went a long way towards nullifying any positive effect Batwoman might have had on the industry. Consequently, the character was relegated to the backseat of the “52” event rather than the forefront of her own title.
In fact, Grayson was eight months into the development of the proposed “Batwoman” title when she found out from a newspaper article that the project was dead, and to this day, the writer has not received so much as a phone call from upper editorial on the matter. “That reversal really surprised and disappointed me,” Grayson admitted. “I won't pretend not to be resentful of how badly DC treated me in that exchange, but the majority of my concern and sympathy goes out to the character, who was basically thrown away by a company which had a lot of support to make her successful and unique. My experiences up to that point had been much more positive, although admittedly less ambitious, and it was really sad and discouraging to see the ball so badly dropped.”
I knew it! They screwed it up royally like so many other things! F*CK!
There were a few scenes that appeared in the original “52” breakdowns which none-too-subtly intimated that Montoya was engaged in sexual congress with another woman, but Rucka insists the reason those scenes never made it to the published issues had less to do with the homosexual content and more to do with sexual content in general. “That's the litmus for me, is it because we're puritanical prudes, or is it because we don't like the fact that they're gay?” Rucka posed. “And more often than not it's that we're puritanically prudish. It's easier in this country to show somebody literally getting their head shot off than showing two people having sex. And that is kind of fucked up.”
Amen.
Lobdell believes that more often than not, it was the fans, not the editors, who reacted most strongly to GLBT issues in his work. “One time I had Storm and Yukio about to kiss in a panel in ‘Uncanny X-Men,'” Lobdell explained. “ Editorially, no one blinked. But the fans? They went ape. I always thought of [Storm] as the most open-minded, tolerant and cautious of all of Marvel's characters, while apparently some people saw her differently.”
lol
“Some of these fictional characters project things on their own. I mean, we all know Peppermint Patty, Marcy, Velma, Snagglepuss, Jabberjaws, Vanity Smurf and Brainy. Well, they're all gay, right?” Andreyko laughed.
Naturally.
Mark Millar is of two minds on the issue. “Sometimes it's a crass headline-grabbing tactic and desperate looking,” Millar said. “But even then, some old uncle who'd been married with kids suddenly coming out of the closet happens in real life and shocks the family. Similarly, I suppose, this could happen in the Marvel or DC Universes. But it can be a little silly when you're getting down to Tin from the ‘Metal Men' or something.”
I understand that people are pissed when characters get "retconned" but it's not like it's impossible that someone who's only been in heterosexual relationships realizes they might not be straight after all. So I think it's pretty stupid to base someone's sexuality solely on the fact that they've dated someone of the opposite sex or gender or whatever word you want to use.
“There have been consistently terrific portrayals of homosexual and bisexual relationships in independent comics for decades, but in mainstream super heroics, it's still pretty rare,” Devin Grayson stated. “There are a few good examples, though, and a lot of bad ones, but I'm going to refrain from naming them because the tally quickly points to specific writers, and I don't want to be negative about any fellow writers who are at least trying to be more inclusive.” “T he single most positive portrayal of a gay super-hero is ‘Top 10's' Jack Phantom,” Terrance Griep declared. “She's likable, competent, and I loved in the first issue of the first series that she took Toybox out for coffee to see if Toybox's sexual hinges might swing her way. And when she found out they didn't, they became friends. Finally, a GLBT character who just happened to be lesbian, but was allowed to express her sexuality in a non-exploitative way. It was perfect.”
Why didn't I know that?! Where the hell did I put my Top Ten comics...?
Moore singled out one aspect of Frank Miller's popular “300” as a particularly egregious example of poor research as it relates to GLBT issues. “There was just one particular line in it where one of the Spartan soldiers -- I'll remind you, this is Spartans that we're talking about -- one of them was talking disparagingly about the Athenians, and said, ‘Those boy-lovers.' You know, I mean, read a book, Frank. The Spartans were famous for something other than holding the bridge at Thermopylae, they were quite famous for actually enforcing man-boy love amongst the ranks as a way of military bonding.”
Heh, this is here just because I hate Frank Miller.
“I know that a lot of the people in positions of power in this industry today (not all of them, but a lot) are very open-minded and dedicated to the idea of fair representation -- sexually, racially, gender-wise, across the board,” Grayson continued. “But that doesn't mean that they necessarily know how to make those changes, or have the guts to do so."
Yes, unfortunately that is the case. Change happens so damn slow. People just simply suck at it.
Painkiller Jane
The latest issue of Painkiller Jane was good. I'm glad Ajira didn't turn out to be a bad guy. And after what was shown about her past and how she got there I doubt she'll end up dead. Unless Palmiotti and Quesada wanted to be assholes (which is always possible). But I have hope. And talking about PKJ I read on Newsarama that they'll be doing a Painkiller Jane/Terminator crossover. Now before that would've sounded a bit stupid but then I started having images of Lena Headey and Kristanna Loken in a same place kicking ass... No, I still haven't forgiven KL but dreams are still allowed, right?
Justice League: The New Frontier
Finally a release month for Justice League: The New Frontier movie! The DVD will be out in February. Woohoo! A long time dream come true when Lucy Lawless will be Wonder Woman. Okay, I know she'll just be the voice but if I can't get the real thing then I'll take this. I just can't believe they actually considered leaving Wonder Woman out of it completely. Someone was seriously lacking brain function...
Y: The Last Man
Then there's the news that a team has been selected for Y: The Last Man movie. Excellent, now there's a real chance it'll make it to the big screen. Of course there's always the possibility that they'll screw the whole thing up... But I prefer being optimistic and I'll just hang them later if they do make a mess of it.
Birds of Prey #108
Last but not least there's Birds of Prey #108, the last issue by Gail Simone.
-First of all, this cover would be good if the dude hadn't forgotten that Barbara is paralysed. I don't know much about paralysis but I imagine that they can't really keep their leg in that kind of position.
-Ha, Scandal has regrowing organs. Should've known...
-Huntress left Catman a note! How cute is that!
-Aww, Harley, don't quit!
-"Swan Song", how appropiate.
-Ok, Zinda got a ride home, that's good. Hate to think she had to walk...
-"And arranged safe passage for Ice to be taken into the care of her friend at Checkmate." Please tell me we get to see that? Please? Have we seen that? Did I miss it? Damn, does this mean I have to start reading Countdown again?
-Maiden Tower? Ok...
-A duel? Ok.....
-"Spy Smasher? Meet Batgirl." Wow... *drool*
-Isn't it fun how there's no blood even though they pound each other? It's not like they're metahuman or something...
-"Don't you dare pass out on me yet." You go Babs, just let it all out!
-Wow, what's Catwoman doing there? What are the Outsiders doing there? Is that Rose? What's Karen doing there???? And Shiva???? But lookie, Zinda's back!!!
-Ahh, now I get it... Dinah. Hello Dinah, it's good to see you.
-Heh, Dinah's being a badass.
-lol, no one knows who invited Shiva...
-Awww, isn't that great, all of them together again... *sigh*
-"Somebody hug me before I turn all weepy and embarrasing." I'll hug you Babs, anytime. *hugs*
Well, that's it, the end of an era. I'll still keep reading, no doubt about that. I love the characters. I can only hope Sean McKeever does a good job with them. But I'll miss Gail.
